Coaching vs Counselling: A Conversation About the Inner Work of Leadership

Featuring Michael Schaefer

Have you ever found yourself stuck in the same unhealthy leadership patterns—overthinking, overfunctioning, or avoiding tough conversations—and wondered why you can’t break free?

You’re not alone.

I sat down with counsellor and trauma therapist Michael Schaefer. Michael is the founder of 3 Chairs Counselling and Emmanuel Focused Training. As an experienced ministry worker and counsellor, he has a lot of wisdom to share around what makes a healthy leader.

In our conversation, we unpack the deeper question behind so many leadership struggles:

What kind of support do leaders actually need—and when is coaching not enough?

We talk openly about:

• The difference between coaching and counselling

• The kinds of internal blocks that get in the way of healthy leadership

• How to recognise when it’s time to do deeper personal work

• Why high-performing doesn’t always mean well-functioning

This is a conversation for anyone who wants to lead with greater self-awareness and emotional integrity.

If this resonates with you, I can support you through Reflective Supervision, Executive Coaching or a workshop for your team on Healthy Leadership Mindsets for Christian Leaders.

I also specialise in leadership development for neurodiverse leaders, including workplace assessments for people with ADHD & Autism, so please forward this to someone you know who may benefit.

Don't go it alone!

Kathryn Martens

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